But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM Contact Us A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. Good question. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. Being a golf club designer and marketer, I certainly know that there are gains to be made in your efficiency by availing yourself of the right modern equipment. Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. Whether you can still hit the ball in the air and make good contact is dependent on your swing. 1001 Industrial Blvd Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. Pros and cons? Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. Hi! If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? Copyright 2020 GolfWRX Holdings, LLC. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. If you're a digger already, could make for deeper digging! Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. One good example comes to mind. What bounce does is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? make it a "digger" per say? Military. Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. Your link has been automatically embedded. Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. The new era of stronger lofts is all about how far to hit 7 iron vs how close to hit 7 iron and more accurate. We dont stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.. I do not find these to dig at all. The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 4-6 more yards (depending on club and swing speed) and lower launch with less bounce. From my research into various golfer communities, it is highly likely that if you are reading this blog post you probably are playing to somewhere between a 5 and 16 handicap. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. (more on this down below). The reason this happens has to do with an iron's center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an iron's COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. Espana. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. Loft and lie changes are more or less permanent. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. Odyssey Pro #1 black The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. 2023 Acushnet Company. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. If you are taking big divots with a 2 iron you have some serious problems with your swing. Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft | eBay The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? Bending lofts to 2 degrees stronger - WRX Club Techs - GolfWRX Good point. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. Would bending it serve the same result? I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! It flies lower and that is about it. Tiger Woods plays his irons in weaker lofts and he doesnt seem to have any distance issues! Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. For example, the first generation M2 5-iron has a loft of 21.5. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? 5 Testers Needed! I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. Your previous content has been restored. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. This is even less a personal thing than the grip with very little variation, there is a single way to set up to a golf ball to help a good golf swing happen. I couldn't agree more, they are a thing of beauty but also of art, it'll change the effect the way the club goes through the turf, I've lost some distance using these because I was hitting the new T-MB which 3 iron went a mile, but the 3 iron in the MB's is what dreams are made of, way easy to hit and launch, I wouldn't want to mess with it, that being said I did increase the lie up 2 degrees for my swing:). I've never had a sand wedge bent. I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. Guess I dont get it. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. You won't notice it. I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! All rights reserved. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. ENTER NOW! Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. Stronger iron lofts don't always create more distance - GolfWRX Great answer Blake. Great point I am a low ball hitter looking for more distance especially in my high irons. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. All rights reserved. Thanks! Its taking up to 2 degrees off each iron. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. weight removed), Ball:1. This will change the trajectory of the ball, and can potentially cause misdirected shots. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. PXG 0311P Gen 3 - 5to PW - Nippon 125 X The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. It is amazing how much higher/lower similar irons can perform, in terms of player level. Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Thanks for everybody for your help! Clear editor. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. St Louis, MO. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" Military. (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. Will it affect offset? Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. You can also bend the angles to a consistent specification precisely fit for any golfer. Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. My 54 wedge has 12 of bounce and the divots I take with it are just a big as all the rest. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. Should I have my new 3-Iron Bent 1 Degree Strong? Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Taking the destructive shot out of your game is key. TM TPx. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW Youll be amazed at the difference a properly fit set of irons can make to your game. More photos from the event here. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. It, In any case one can't really compare clubs anymore with respect to asking what someone hit. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. I was fit for my current irons and they were bent 2 degrees strong for ball flight purposes. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Not going to dig any more than normal. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Thanks for your advice, its been helpful. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. Display as a link instead, A flat lie angle is simply when the heel of the golf club is bent so it is higher than the toe. Restore formatting, Thanks everybody for the help! How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Why knowing the different variations in epoxy matter Here How to create excitement before they take the first What you can expect with a Mitchell Golf Angle Mitchell Golf Equipment Company You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2