The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. GitHub - Boris-Barboris/AtmosphereAutopilot: Plugin for Kerbal Space I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Kerbin | Kerbal Space Program Wiki | Fandom The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Pasted as rich text. Kerbal Space Program - Wikipedia Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. high altitude flight :: Kerbal Space Program General Discussions Welcome to the forums. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. More air is better. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. For more information, please see our Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. Very cool. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. My question is really about controllability. Planes and Altitude differences. :: Kerbal Space Program General Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. surface of jool. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Your previous content has been restored. Best altitude to fly a plane? - Kerbal Space Program - GameFAQs Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Content titles and body; Content titles only You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. 2.) Highest and fastest possible is best. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? And it's stock, unfortunately. It only takes a minute to sign up. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Isn't that backwards snark? The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. Why not keep the engine for multi-stage rockets? - Space Exploration That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Your link has been automatically embedded. This is the first version. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. edited 6 yr. ago. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. Delta-v budget - Wikipedia This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. CONTROLABLE plane for ~20km altitude? :: Kerbal Space Program General Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. It was meant for low altitude flight. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home Mike Aben 24.8K subscribers Join Subscribe 85 Share 3.4K views 1 year ago Ep. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. However, it seems as if your delta wing has has more area, might that be it? and our I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. How can I make money in the new career mode? Thanks for the help! Yes. High altitude (~20km) possible with normal plane engines? Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. Chapter 4. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Fighting oscillations. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. Designing a High Altitude Jet | KSP: Making Space Home In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . This works, but it's not optimal. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Kerbal Space Program - All Easter Eggs Guide Let me. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. i recently used a single whiplash plane and was able to maintain a stable 21-22k meter altitude. Valve Corporation. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. Paste as plain text instead, Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Paste as plain text instead, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? principle. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! It will be expensive and time consuming. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. High altitude planes - Kerbal Space Program Forums At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. Cheers again fellas. Your previous content has been restored. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. You can post now and register later. Upload or insert images from URL. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! - Insane lift to weight didn't help. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Early career high altitude observations question : r/KerbalAcademy Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. KSP Delta-V Calculator - KSP HOW TO CALCULATE DELTA-V I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. You cannot paste images directly. Its an approximation missing someelements. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Clear editor. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. Ksp engine altitudes : r/KerbalSpaceProgram - reddit Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. AoA and G-force moderation. Plane - Kerbal Space Program Wiki When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. 20 votes, 21 comments. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References But. Main goals: Auto-trimming. air) that high up. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. You need to do it with what you've got. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. You can post now and register later. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. Laythe - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? Really. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Satellite Launcher - Kerbal Space Program Wiki If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. 1.) Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Display as a link instead, KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? That will unlock: Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Display as a link instead, Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. Airplane Plus on SpaceDock : : . Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for.