I have built lots of spaceplanes. I have built lots of spaceplanes. An alternative is making sure you have complete control of the craft. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107795, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107807, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107735, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484107761, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484119427, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures, http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=484137556, http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/443953434412162923/42B3BB54A6A524CCC2E5C102AD88C8E521790F55/. An active front brake can cause your aircraft to rapidly and uncontrollably pivot left or right during landing, and high friction from the front wheel can potentially cause your plane to swerve violently both in landing and takeoff. After placing wheels I always use the rotate gizmo on snap with absolute orientation. Subscribe! Ailerons to roll your aircraft should be placed as far off to the edges of your wings as possible. Aim to get your speed below 50m/s, and have plenty of water ahead of you; keep the plane level, and pitch up to shed velocity. This thread is archived . Note that the lift rating does not mean that the wings will automatically lift a spaceplane into the air when it's moving forward. Firstly, inadequate air intakes for the number and type of engines you're using (causing some engines to shut down before others). But regardless of that, try very hard to let the plane fly itself off the ground without you applying any controls. here are some images and a gif. [KSP] - Heavy Seaplane Take-off, Water-landing and Re-take-off! For myself, it always was the position of landing gear in terms of pitch. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13851-The-woes-of-building-a-space-plane?highlight=woes+spaceplane. 3. angle of the wheels. Secondly, it would suggest that your spaceplane's center of lift is too far forward compared to its center of gravity (causing the uncontrollable spin). While all other cargo bays are fine for making spaceplanes, the Mk3 Cargo Ramp produces obscene amounts of drag, which can easily prevent reaching orbital velocities by itself. Note that a Wheesley or Goliath engine can reverse its thrust to allow rapid deceleration during landing, but these are not recommended for a spaceplane due to being unreasonably heavy and inducing excessive drag when attempting to transition to orbital velocities. All the weight is pushed on the middle and it can't pull up. Here is your convenient solution to this problem! I shouldn't have placed landing gears on the fuselage, I found that placing landing gears on flat surfaces like wings make landing gears a lot more stable. symmetry building makes them face slightly towards (or away from) each other, with wobbly results. @TheEnvironmentalist There is one more method I'm sure would work in your case, although I didn't write about it because I think it's cheesy and wouldn't solve the root problem. When your altitude reaches 35km, start pulling up gently. I have created a score of other aircrafts with different designs but deleted them because they didnt work even on the runway. 1. make sure your main gear is not wobbling (ie. You probably won't have much luck landing the fuselage intact if your Mk3 plane gets its wings scorched off on reentry. When your spaceplane rolls shortly after touchdown, veers to one side and then explodes on the runway, you have a problem with landing stability. Firstly you're going to want to make a short fuselage. Balanced fuel saves Kerbal lives. Wing shapes do not appear to have a significant impact on drag or drag-to-lift ratio at this time, but swept wings are still an easy way to help ensure that your center of lift stays behind your center of mass. Need to move them up. Here's a quick installment in to the. - KSP - YouTube 0:00 / 31:25 Flying a Space Station through a GAS GIANT! This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from the center of Kerbin than the middle (because it's totally flat), the runway is a valley from a gravitational frame of reference. The issue is my plane rolls very sharply to the left any time I pitch up. Canards and horizontal tail fins should be placed as far towards the front and back of your aircraft as possible, respectively. as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. First of all, since the launch happens horizontally, you will have to include landing gears, and you will most likely want to include jet engines for the first stage for excellent fuel and cost efficiency. This is also the same reason why planes start rolling toward the middle of the runway; because both ends of the runway are further from . My Space Plane Keeps Flipping Backwards On The - Dive into anything It is also said that a good landing is one you can walk away from. if mounted on not struted part) 2. put your main gear slightly behind center of mass. What causes turbulence? | WOWK 13 News My plane usually take off at a little over 120m/s. When landing, you can achieve the highest lift for a given speed by raising the total angle of attack of your wings to 30 degrees (although this induces a great deal of drag). And, of course, try to take off and land as slow as possible. Second try, speed over land reached over 210 m/s and it didn't flip. When I Start Why Engine, It Goes Straight But As Soon As I Takeoff. Powered by Invision Community. Plane wobble during takeoff - KSP1 Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Is there a way to place landing gear so that i can guarantee my plane can remain stable on the runway even at high speed in excess of 200m/s? Thanks for the help guys. You cannot paste images directly. Clear editor. Pasted as rich text. It Flips Up And Towards The Opposite Direction. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Gameplay Questions and Tutorials - Kerbal Space Program Forums Hello, I am having a small problem with a plane I have built. Kerbal Space Program 2 - Overview and Tutorial for All the New Parts If you're planning on landing on a somewhat uneven surface, like an open grassland somewhere on Kerbin or an island on Laythe, consider packing some parachutes for deceleration. This plane will be able to take off, travel somewhere, perform a crew report, and then land. This helps to keep the performance of your spaceplane stable with any amount of fuel. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. Some testing is usually required with new designs to determine the best ascent profile. As with everything in KSP, experiment, experiment, experiment. Note that dropping off cargo from the back with a Mk3 Cargo Ramp is bad for more than one reason. Landing can be trickier for spaceplanes since they are designed for higher speeds than other aircraft and may not be able to fly level at speeds low enough for an easy landing (<50 m/s). To takeoff and land at low speed, it's helpful to rotate the wings so the leading edge is slightly above the trailing edge. Doesnt make sense so just do this: Nope that didn't solve anything, even when the plane is past the runway and gliding on the little bit of space before the ocean it will slowly lower to the ocean, what am I doing wrong? - KSP Matt Lowne 527K subscribers 1.3M views 2 years ago I've wanted. Is there a way to place landing gear so that i can guarantee my plane can remain stable on the runway even at high speed in excess of 200m/s? Now imagine what happens like that. Your very own tutorial.). If you can give a craft file and a mod list I could take a look. This helped immensely and if you haven't been doing this already, do it. When I use it for spaceplane guidance it keeps me on the correct heading, but the flight is very busy sine wave of a path. Such flight involves lift-induced drag, but reduces the total thrust required to traverse a distance at a given speed. . Congratulations! 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Is there a way to rectify this problem. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Plane bouncing on takeoff - Kerbal Space Program Forums I have never successfully landed a single aircraft before as they all tend to roll over when landing at high speed. Hit the launch button and watch your magnificent bird fly! I started investigating why this was happening. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/65638-Basic-Airplane-Space-Plane-Aero-Tutorial. Thanks for all the help. All of them had one thing in common though. The plane is clearly unstable. Alternatively, you can try landing at higher speeds with your nose pointed further down, but this increases challenges with stability and deceleration while on the runway. If your rear wheels are too far back the aircraft will not be able to pivot on the wheels and lift its nose up. Valve Corporation. Now for the engines. You can also use parachutes on landing, but care must be taken to ensure that an adequate length of runway remains since you'll only get one chance to use them. My plane tends to wobble on the runway with the stock game so i decided to download FAR, but the problem still persists. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. If you need to carry more fuel, consider using the Big-S Delta Wing as it provides the same lift-to-drag and lift-to-weight ratio as any other wing of the same mass, yet has the ability to carry fuel as well. Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. ), Stable aircraft: "Untitled" (lost the file upon loading after aircraft), Stable jet car: "Untitled" (Lost the file), Speed over land > 350 m/s before veering off the runway, Sometimes Stable Spaceplane: "Hypersonic Experimental". Finally you need to make sure it's all balanced, this means the centre of lift marker needs to be very slightly behind the centre of mass marker. Keep your spaceplane pointed about 90 degrees above prograde so that the wings and body of your aircraft slow you down as much as possible. I have no problems using Mechjeb to launch rockets into orbit, rendezvousing and docking with other craft. I do add a strut to each wheel out of habit since my earlier versions use to roll, better safe than sorry. Bit late i know, but i had the same problem. This aircraft handles smoothly, no matter how you turn, roll and flip this aircraft, it will never lose control. Though, I use the FAR mod which will change things, so I can't guarantee the results will be useful, but it might be interesting. Aircraft in this game is almost unfeasible, especially in career mode, you will lose all your money before you finally design an aircraft that can even takeoff. They all had to use the runway drop to take off. After a successful touchdown, high-speed motion on the runway (let alone uneven ground) can be unstable, causing the aircraft to careen to one side or the other, potentially resulting in loss of a wing and sometimes the entire aircraft. . It helps to have a center of gravity which is close to your engines so that the landing gears can be close to both. * Unlock steering and disable brakes on front gear. Easier just to bring the rear wheels closer as well as a in line reacton wheel. Privacy Policy. All rights reserved. This is either a collider or design issue, if the craft doesn't have enough lift initially to get off the ground it will bounce a bit before taking off. Brakes in the back keep you stable. All rights reserved. Lift maxes out at 30 and declines beyond that point, so avoid excessive fuselage tilt.[1]. Then at the top, we'll put one tail fin, centred on the end of the fuselage. KSP Quick Guides: Takeoff Troubleshooting Stock v.22 - YouTube Here is your convenient solution to this problem! It provides a wider, more stable wheel base while keeping the wheels straight up and down (no camber). This page was last edited on 17 December 2021, at 13:14. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Now I'll walk you through a basic aircraft; fancy stuff like science equipment can be added later. They all had landing gear placed at the front and at the back. Also pay attention to your fuel balance, especially if you're using several tanks placed in parallel to each other. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. While I am not a great plane builder there is a part in the structural (I think it is a pylon?) As long as you're in space, your spaceplane won't differ from any spacecraft: you will probably want to add batteries and generators to prevent the command pod from running out of power. I was wrong. It's said that takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory. Because of how small Kerbin is and how high its gravity is, a perfectly flat surface just north of the equator will cause planes taking off to bias to the right of the runway, as if they were rolling downhill. Heavy transport seaplane inspired to the Soviet Beriev A-40 Albatros which also appears in Evangelion 2.0! There are multiple ways to place them: Ailerons control the roll of the aircraft, and are (almost) always placed on the wings, as far out as possible and as centered (compared to the center of mass) as could be. You can post now and register later. It is also advisable to add some control surfaces to your plane to have some control in the atmosphere: you can manually add them to the wings or choose winglets with effective control surfaces, like the Standard Canard. How to make aircraft take off - Kerbal Space Program Forums Re-entry heating can destroy parts of your spaceplane, or destroy it entirely. Here are a few pictures of it: Take a picture with center of mass and center of lift turned on. Upload or insert images from URL. This is generally an issue of not spacing your landing gears out far enough apart. When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. At that point, the plane could potentially start spinning around as a result of losing the benefit of the gimbal control of the engine. my planes keep flipping backwards on take off : r/KerbalAcademy - reddit my center of lift is always slightly infront of my mass. You can resolve the emergency by transferring fuel from rear fuel tanks to forward fuel tanks, but you should alter your design to bring your wings further back to prevent such incidents in the future. Controllability of a plane is on you. 1. Even with a stable landing, you may find that you don't have enough room on your desired landing area to come to a stop before you reach the end. You can also angle the wings themselves slightly upwards (using WASDQE) in order to make them generate more lift when horizontal. I was wrong. Make sure that all of your landing gears are pointing in exactly the same direction. You should be able to navigate fairly readily, and with the superb efficiency of jet engines, you should have plenty of fuel to go anywhere you need to go. If you placed the main wings at the centre of mass and then added the smaller wings behind, this should be correct already. LV-N "Nerv" nuclear thermal rockets are commonly used on SSTOs for the rocket stage if Rapiers are not used. Tutorial:Aeris 4A mission - Kerbal Space Program Wiki This is all right if their high efficiency saves enough fuel, but that may not be the case in small spaceplanes with limited fuel capacity. That said, parachutes are an exceedingly effective means of reducing your stopping distance. Why is it doing this? Clear editor. They are able to operate at higher altitudes and can even continue operating in a vacuum by switching to a rocket mode. Symmetry placement should give you perfect symmetry, as far as the game is concerned. Now stick a jet engine on the back, and don't forget to put an air intake or other air-sucking device (you can find them in aerodynamics) on the airplane. I managed to successfully takeoff and land this aircraft at least 20 times in a roll now and I haven't even lost a single pilot flying this. 32.5K Downloads Updated Dec 11, 2014 Created Dec 11, 2014. Mechjeb Spaceplane Guidance : r/KerbalSpaceProgram - reddit You main problem is your landing gear. A Mk1 Cockpit, two Mk 1 Liquid Fuel Tanks, and then cap the back with a round nose cone (use the A/D keys to rotate it as necessary). Tutorial:Basic SSTO Design - Kerbal Space Program Wiki This thread is quite old. You've just unlocked "Aviation" tech, you have a bunch of contracts that require you to stay at low altitude, and you want to build your first plane? if mounted on not struted part). So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. And also place them further apart. Everything looks perfectly symmetrical as far as I can tell. However, I want to place my wheels where i want to and not only on X parallel surfaces. A plane is any craft which flies horizontally in an atmosphere utilizing lift primarily generated by wings, winglets, or control surfaces. I've had stability issues in planes where I'd have proper gear setup, balanced weight and lift. Alright, it's late where I live so I'm gonna hit the hay and come back to it tommorrow, I read on the guide someone sent me and I think it is taht it doesn't have any way of pointing the up, so I'll tinker with some of the wings and see what I can do. I dunno why but this picture makes the one side look like it is tipped in but I know they are straight, I believe it just the angle that the picture was taken that is causing it to look like this. Does your plane never pull up taking off? I have been building - reddit For more information, please see our 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14. Or adding a RATO boosters. Tutorial: Basic Plane Design - Kerbal Space Program Wiki It's strongly recommended to keep your landing gears well-spaced from each other to ensure that the aircraft will be difficult to roll into a collision. Landing is hard. If you plan on either dropping off cargo or picking up cargo and traveling with it, you'll generally want to locate your cargo bay at the middle of your center of gravity. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?. But be careful and don't crash it! This page was last edited on 19 February 2020, at 07:08. #2 DaSkippa Mar 14, 2014 @ 2:56am as Shkeec said check gear check gear check gear. For example, having your landing gears located near the ends of the wings is an easy way to ensure that you don't roll and shred your wings when landing or taking off. Also, excessive use of the rudder usually causes the plane to spin out of control and crash. Sometimes taking things off and re-attaching them does it, or you may have to go so far as to scrap the design and rebuild. Keep at around 15 degrees to allow the plane to accelerate past 1000m/s. This is most likely the standard jitterbugging problem. Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). Cookie Notice Yours is a very light plane, and the standard suspension settings are for a medium heavy plane -- so your suspension is too stiff. Consequently, atmospheric reentry is less dangerous with a Mk2 or Mk3 fuselage, compared to reentry with Mk1 fuselages. This can easily cause you to crash on landing. Alternatively, if you're returning from a high orbit or from an interplanetary trip, you can try repeated shallow passes through the atmosphere. Now put on center of mass and center of lift view, and move the delta wings until the center of lift is slightly behind of the center of mass - not in front, otherwise your aircraft will be able to easily flip out of control. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Elevators are usually places in the front or back of an aircraft, and their function, as the name implies, is to change the pitch of the nose up and down. Check out the following guide for some good info: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures These have extremely poor temperature tolerance and will almost inevitably break up during atmospheric reentry. Plane rolls uncontrollably on take-off : r/KerbalSpaceProgram Go on, and take the plane capsule which looks like a converted fuel storage device Contents 1 Making a fuselage 2 Understanding Lift 3 Control Surfaces 3.1 Elevator 3.2 Aileron 3.3 Rudder 4 Landing gear Making a fuselage Any plane needs speed - so you need thrust (usually). I'm making sure that I keep trying to get it up but it just wont go! Keep in mind that as your altitude increases, your control surfaces and winglets will become increasingly ineffective and will no longer work at all once you leave the atmosphere, so you may need to add alternative control systems like reaction wheels or RCS thrusters. However, make sure to use struts when placing landing gears on the far edges of a multi-part wing because they may sag enough to cause a fuselage collision with the runway during landing. Note: This tutorial was last updated for version 1.7.2. All I have are the parts from the Aerodynamics tech and the gear bay (wheels). When flying straight the plane is pretty stable but pitching up causes a sharp roll and I cant figure out why. Kerbal Space Program 2's simulation is a lot more in-depth than its predecessor, where it was feasible for any wannabe Goddard to punch through the atmosphere with overwhelming thrust. While it's true that jet engines don't work in space, they offer one large advantage over rocket engines while inside the atmosphere: fuel efficiency. If the front landing gear touches down first and has its brakes on, it's going to make the rest of your aircraft pivot around it as it's pressed into the ground. The SSTO I took to Laythe recently has only one minor flaw using this design, I have to raise the landing gear and pull back slightly to take off. One final point to consider is the mass you're planning to store in the fuselage. A relatively low-drag alternative is to use an inverted cargo bay and some hydraulic cylinders with structural panels as a cargo elevator. Be warned that if you do not provide sufficient air intakes for the engines you've placed, you may find that some of your engines shut down before others. Close to empty tanks will allow you to fly slower, decelerate faster, and reduce touchdown strain. They sometimes coincide with elevators. LV-N exceeds 75% of its full power at just 7700m altitude on Kerbin. Those and the fixed main gear are NOTORIOUSLY bouncy. Also, try this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99660-0-25-Adjustable-Landing-Gear-v1-0-4%28doors-fixed%29-Nov-14 (still works in 0.90 if you get updated firespitter.dll). Any ideas? FOX 56 News Video More Videos This is an important distinction; a plane with great lift rating but without any control surfaces will fly easily but will be almost uncontrollable. Then you want to put something called a "Small Circular Intake" on the front of the tank, and a "J-20 Juno" engine on the back of the tank. But, likely guess is your craft is not producing enough lift. Then this tutorial is for you. Be aware that landing on water is an option if your spaceplane can fly level at less than ~40-50 m/s. The FedEx plane pulled back up in time to avoid a collision. Your wheels should now have 0 degree angle between them, meaning they are both. This allows you to takeoff at lower speeds and on shorter runways, and likewise for landing. A good example of this is at the KSC runway when landing on a 90 degree bearing. KSC's runway is slightly north of Kerbin's equator and perfectly flat. Similar principles apply when finding suitable landing sites away from the KSC. https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=Tutorial:_Your_First_Plane&oldid=103052. Real planes do this as well. Although I usually only need 50 m/s for most planes to wobble out of control. So I have played the game for 200 hours and I love it. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. 200 m/s runway stability just doesn't seem to have a worthwhile purpose to me, and is inducing counter productive engineering challenges. Heavy Cargo Space Plane SSTO Download. It is usually placed back because it can be placed further back than it is possible in the front (if it is placed in the front, it can obstruct the view of the pilot, which is undesired) as well as making the plane unstable (by the same effect that you would get if the center of lift (horizontal lifting surfaces) were in front of the center of mass, but with vertical surfaces). Enable mirror symmetry to save yourself some alignment effort. See the tutorial below. Such as not producing lift, which is not what you want with a plane. In vanilla KSP, wings have a predefined lift factor. However, they are extremely heavy for their power, weighing as much as a conventional rocket nearly 11 times more powerful. Note that no wings will tolerate more than 2400K, so the difference in temperature tolerance between Mk2 and Mk3 fuselages isn't terribly significant. Thanks for everyone trying to help! To recover the most value from your spaceplane, you should try to land on the runway at the Space Center (this tutorial, although it has been written for spacecraft and not spaceplanes, is a great help). the I place on the wing and attach landing gear on those, it sometimes takes a few tries to find the right spot but well worth it. Notice how the landing gears are placed out on the wings. A Ravenspear Mk3 taking off from the Runway in version 1.0.5. KSP short takeoff plane test | Simple Horten Ho 229 replica Be aware that while this angle will provide the lowest possible landing speed for your spaceplane, it will create problems if your center of gravity is too far ahead of your rear landing gears (causing a high-speed nose collision on touchdown) or if your rear landing gears are too far ahead of your engines, causing them to strike the runway first. Now right click each elevon and the tail fin and set what movement each controls; the ones on the large wings control roll only, the ones on the back wings control pitch only, and the tail fin controls yaw only. While having the same stock parts as in the VAB, spaceplane design is obviously quite different from pure rocket design.