Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Reg-Jean Page Reveals Why He *Really* Left 'Bridgerton', Eugene Levy Hints At A Schitts Creek Revival, Pedro Pascals Cameo In 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer' Is The Ultimate Throwback, Leonie Elliott Shared A Moving Message For Fans After Quitting 'Call The Midwife', Get Even More From Bustle Sign Up For The Newsletter. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Tywin is dead. So with those reasons stated, how can Sansa be forced to marry and have it stand as an official marriage? Thus there are examples of high ranking medieval persons marrying when years younger than the canonical minimum ages. Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. We are positioned as voyeurs This, really, is one of the most unsavory parts of the whole affair. Littlefinger seems to assume that the marriage is no longer valid/never was. Sansa would endure many more horrors after this, but her treatment by Joffrey and Cersei certainly started it all. Joffrey and Margaerys wedding was the last time Sansa and Tyrion saw each other. Now, Westeros is clearly a fantasy world created by A Song of Ice and Fire author George R.R. Sansa Stark | Game of Thrones Wiki | Fandom Annulment does exist in the show. It's almost a given for people of her stature. And the church did have minimum ages for being married. Yet Tywin Lannister can force his daughter Cersei who is middle aged to marry Loras Tyrell. Is there enough evidence of Sansa Stark turning against House Stark? Defying an order of the crown is treason and punishable by death. And if Scandinavian churchmen often ignored the canonical lower age limit for becoming a priest, it is probable that medieval churchmen often ignored the lower age limit for marriage. Consider Danaerys' young age (in the books) at which she marries Khal Drogo; and no one protesting to this based on her age. Within the TV adaptation, Shae is one of the only people who seems to genuinely care for Sansa as a person, and they develop a pretty close relationship when Shae acts as Sansa's handmaid. He was in love with Sansa's mother Catelyn and couldn't stop bringing up how much Sansa resembled Cat. As Littlefinger explains to the despicable Ramsay Bolton in season five, the marriage between Sansa and Tyrion was never consummated, which in Westeros means it's null and void. What actually happens in the books is that Sansa's best friend Jeyne Poole is married to Ramsay, but Ramsay is pretending that Jeyne is actually Arya Stark in order to give some veil of legitimacy to his claim over Winterfell. Tyrion was referring to Sansa's childish naivet. It's murky, but the answer is most likely no. Because she was an asset. The Lady of Winterfell, and, by extension, the North. Thats why the Tyrells wanted her for Willas. The Reach and the Nor That said, Huffington Post asked some experts what they thought and I know that Tywin brokered the marriage of Tyrion to Sansa in order to prevent her from being wed to a Tyrell, but why did Sansa agree to it? Karras disagreed. TLDR, Sansa and Tyrion are still very much married if George's rules still apply in D&D's world, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/134678/, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/161207/, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/95350/, https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/95350/isnt-sansa-already-married, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? The mother would only have the right to decide if the father was dead. rev2023.3.3.43278. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Those plans fall That said, it seems like Littlefinger had a different interpretation, since he handed Sansa over to the Boltons back in Season 5 with the assurance that the Stark was still a virgin. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? In George's world, Consummation is required to make the wedding binding, if not consummated, it can be set aside by High Septon or a council of Faith on request of either party. Except Baelish and the Boltons, I mean? Littlefinger will marry Sansa when the Boltons fall, an event he hastened when he informed Cersie, the Queen mother, of the Bolton-Stark wedding and presented it as Boltons idea. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Lady's death in the second episode of the series is a heartbreaking and brutal introduction into the world of courtly life with the Lannisters for Sansa Stark. Obviously, the people who were forcing her to marry. Without him, Read the Book Spoilers Now, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. A place where magic is studied and practiced? He was married to her, but this was a forced union which neither of them wanted and which was more of a friendship than a marriage. 2 minutes ago, by Sarah Wasilak They're her parents now; they said yes, even if from the view of her real family she's being held hostage. Because she had no option, Cersei tells her that she is going to be married no matter what, so she can either go peacefully or kicking and sc What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Now that Sansa and Tyrion are both in Winterfell, don't expect her to change her last name to Lannister. Monks were supposed to voluntarily take their vows of obedience and poverty, etc. In Sansa's point of view chapters, it's clear that she thinks of Lady often, as she likely had a warg bond with the wolf that was broken when Lady was killed. Sansa's desire to go to King's Landing proves that she wants to be part of the royal court. Try to understand the difference between truth and the perception of truth, much of the Game of Thrones plot hinges on this. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? A septon unites those who follow the Faith of the Seven, a priest or priestess does the same for believers in the Drowned God or Rhllor, and a Godswood heart tree is used by followers of the Old Gods. Tyrion never consummated the wedding but Sansa never requested an annulment. "Consummation was not necessary for a marriage," Karras said. He's like some kind of inside out Severus Snape. I suspect Danerys and/or Jon would happily grant an annulment. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? "I won't share your bed," Tyrion tells her on their wedding night. They were never fully married, even though Littlefinger told Roose Bolton that Sansa and Tyrions union was invalid because it was never consummated. Or maybe their marriage will end up playing a part in any negotiations to come. The fact that Tywin does it and no one stops him pretty much shows that he's allowed to do it. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc3598339902. This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. Sansa Stark Tyrion Lannister Still Married - Refinery29 Tyrion What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Is it possible to rotate a window 90 degrees if it has the same length and width? These Shows Will Get You Addicted All Over Again, Every Time A TV Character's Death Just About Killed You, Male Comic Shares Dick Pics, Instagram Doesn't Seem To Notice. Get the daily inside scoop right in your inbox. Over time, the two developed a relationship and Tyrion brought Shae back to Kings Landing and she took on the position as handmaiden for Sansa so the two could safely and secretly be together. How to match a specific column position till the end of line? Let's look at the facts: Sansa and Tyrion's marriage was famously never consummated. Catelyn Stark specifically talked (I think to Sansa) about being married off to Ned, and not loving him in the beginning. Love and marriage are rocky subjects in the world of Westeros. That they are married before the Gods, if is was forced, would the church accept it as official. He intended to make his widowed sister Eudocia marry the king, but she refused. Pray tell, who will Sansa Stark marry next on Game of Thrones ? The thing is, Tyrion and Sansa never consummated their marriage, as he didnt feel it appropriate to lie with a woman who was not ready to be with him. Behold. On 15 January 1478 Richard Plantagenet, Duke of York (17 August 1473-1483?) 23 hours ago, by Yerin Kim How will she go forward after experiencing such abuse? Did a septon or someone annul their marriage or has Sansa switched to worshiping the old gods somewhere along the way? But who's informed anybody that Tyrion didn't consummate? There is an opinion that if you have one marriage thats not consummated and then you have a subsequent marriage that is consummated, the one that is consummated takes precedence. How to notate a grace note at the start of a bar with lilypond? So it totally depends on which set of laws you apply.. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Just before Ramsay rapes Sansa, he starts to taunt her by asking why's she still a virgin, was she afraid of dwarf and so on. Wikipedia says that Sigurd was born in 1133, only 12 years before the latest Sverre should have have been born. We find out that, before their wedding ceremony, the groom first secured permission from the High Septon to annul his marriage to Elia Martell. Princess Agnes of France (1171/72-1220 or after 1240), daughter of king Louis VII, was sent to Constantinople in 1179 and married or betrothed to Emperor Alexios II (1169-1183) on 2 March 1180. They interacted a few times, and Robin was his typical bratty self with her. Game of Thrones had to really push to top how upsetting the Red Wedding was, but Sunday's episode, "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken," presented the most horrifying scene to date: the rape of Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner) on her wedding night. It is only, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/GERMANY,%20Kings.htm#_Toc359833990, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverre_of_Norway, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#SigurdHaraldssonMunddied1155, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_France,_Byzantine_Empress, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#Agnesdiedafter1240, http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND,%20Kings%201066-1603.htm#EdwardIVdied1483, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Who Does Sansa Stark Marry On 'Game Of Thrones'? The Answer @TLP I've read the book in which it happens and seen every episode of the show to date. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. BAELISH: Queen Margaery adores Sansa. The kiss may have been a calculated move to get Lysa Arryn out of the way, but the way Petyr Baelish looks at Sansa still makes me a little queasy. It truly comes down to what makes or who approves a legitimate annulment. In ecclesiastical law, the Church would say they are married to each other forever so long as they had pledged themselves and consummated the marriage with sex, Cott told HuffPost. She is still a child even though she has "Flowered" (Tryion says this And yet, were six episodes, Most people know how much an unexpected text message in the middle of the night can ruin a good sleep. It only takes a minute to sign up. BAELISH: Then I have delivered everything I've promised. Without him, Jaime has one hand and no allies, Tommen is a soft boy, not a king to fear. When the Lannisters hear I've wed Sansa Stark to Ramsay BAELISH: The Lannister name doesn't mean what it once did. The final season of Game of Thrones airs Sunday, April 14; after seasons apart, it is likely that Sansa Stark and Tyrion Lannister, who had an arranged marriage back in season 3, will meet once again in season 8. RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Moments Fans Expected To See In The Final Season (That Didn't Happen). Is Sansa and Tyrion's marriage still legitimate? Even if they separated, they wouldnt be able to marry anybody else.. was to marry, Being that she is captive, being made to get married under duress In fact, their marriage never being consummated is why Littlefinger is able to bring Sansa to Ramsay in the first place. I assure you she's still a virgin. Complicated, All the Changes the "Daisy Jones & The Six" TV Show Has Made to the Book So Far, Pedro Pascal Was "Very Excited" to See Sarah Michelle Gellar's Instagram Post About Him, "Bel-Air"'s Akira Akbar on Having Tatyana Ali as a Mentor: "She Just Gave Me Such Great Advice", Are the "Daisy Jones & The Six" Cast Really Singing in the Show? However, once Lady is dead, she's hardly mentioned again, and seems to be entirely forgotten by the second season. For years, we have been thetop moviegoers even though the films we watch rarely reflect our communities. As Wikipedi says about the claim that as a priest Sverre was too old to be the son of King Sigurd Mund: This particular objection has lost credence as it has become clear that this age limit was routinely ignored in Scandinavia at the time. To summarize the comments below this answer: You're ignoring the answers that everyone (both me and the commenters) have provided, which amply answers the question at hand. It's not him personally, but he's part of her situation, the man she was literally forced to marry, and a member of the family that had her father executed and her household murdered. Tyrion and Sansa officially said I do in Season 3 at the demand of Tywin Lannister (Charles Dance), and it becomes a humiliating affair for both bride and groom. Do the Tyrells know (or suspect) where Sansa is? Andronikos married Agnes in 1184 when she was 11 years old and Andronikos was about 53 years older. This poor girl has been tortured by Joffrey Baratheon and then forcibly married to Tyrion Lannister, who was in love with another woman and even less into the match. Stephanie Coontz, a history and family studies professor at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, told HuffPost that the Church controlled access to marriage, divorce and remarriage in the former Roman Empire, especially after the eighth century. With the sole exception of Tyrion, who is unusually progressive for his time. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Once the wedding reception is over, Tyrion and Sansa head to their bedroom to do what everyone expects them to, but Tyrion knows this is something Sansa does not want to do so instead he drinks some more until he passes out. At the dinner reception that followed, Tyrion got very drunk and encouraged Sansa to do the same. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Both are masters of observation who rely on subtle, cerebral moves rather than brute attacks. Thus the bride was 5 years, 1 month, and 5 days old and the groom was 4 years, 4 months, and 29 days old. The North is already in open revolt, so the Lannisters (who are controlling Joffrey right now) don't need to worry about what they think, and are using Joffrey's power as the king to cement a claim to Winterfell through marriage (and eventually a half-Lannister, half-Stark child). Sansa's characterization and story understandably gets a lot more attention in the books, so there are certain facets of her character that only book fans know. And, if so, what does it mean for the final outcome in the quest for the Iron Throne? This process is known as annulment and at least in the UK and most states in the US never having sex is a valid reason for annulment. But in the books, Sansa has taken on a significant caretaking role for him since his mother died, and it seems like Sansa (who he still knows as Alayne) is the only person around him that he actually loves or trusts. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). 18 hours ago, by Lindsay Kimble Because his father forced him once it was decided Geoffrey will marry Margaery and disregarding their opinion they both were forced to play their p She's drawing a line and maintaining a "strictly business" relationship. Actually even in our world, which I assume is what inspired it. It only takes a minute to sign up. I know she married Ramsay but I don't even know if that was an actual binding marriage or just coercive marriage. Sansa is set to marry someone in the books, just not Ramsay. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Either you are willfully ignoring the answers and this question has become pointless to answer, or you do not understand the answers and therefore do not understand the underlying premise of pretty much all events in Game of Thrones. At their wedding (season 3 episode 8), Joffrey walked Sansa down the aisle to Tyrion, in place of the father he had executed. The biggest issue is that when Sansa was to marry Joffrey, she had to wait for her parents consent and since her mother is still alive why does she not have to wait Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Replacing broken pins/legs on a DIP IC package, Identify those arcade games from a 1983 Brazilian music video. From hair trends to relationship advice, our daily newsletter has everything you need to sound like a person whos on TikTok, even if you arent. In 1298, after defeat, Emperor Andronikos II Palaiologos promised to marry a relative to King Stefan Uros II Militun of Serbia (1254?-1321). The disgraced daughter and the demon monkey, Tyrion, whos in a committed relationship with Shae (Sibel Kekilli) at this point, tells Sansa. Can you provide references for the answer you have written? Tysha Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. . And if it was a Friday, American History Has Been Whitewashed, But, Black Teen Girls On TV Are A Mess Finally, Sick Of TV? Has she endured so long just to experience pain at the hand of her enemies? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? The biographies of many saints tell how they entered monasteries as young children. So, as far as we know, there is no easy answer. But who says Tyrion didn't consummate? No. I do remember that Emperor Manual I Komnenos (reigned 1143-1180) arranged most of the marriages between members of the extensive Komnenos dynasty and members of Byzantine noble families and foreign royalty and nobility, for example. Tyrion was also forced to marry her, something she doesn't seem to realize. She is raped on her wedding night, beaten and tormented a storyline many disapprove of before she is able to break free of Ramsays clutches and find her way back to Jon. And she was begging them to allow her to marry Joffery at that time. Why did Lord Tywin try to execute Tyrion? @TLP not a tv plot hole. Now, if you looked earlier in the 12th century, theres considerable disagreement among canon lawyers about whether consummation is necessary for a completed marriage, Karras said. For one, Ralph, with a decades-spanning ca, When Prime Video first launched friendship comedy Harlem in 2021, the timing couldnt have been better; it was as if the streamer knew the culture needed, Latines love entertainment. But throughout the course of the story, she evolved from a nave child to a worthy queen. In Westeros, most marriages begin with a religious ceremony involving the exchange of vows in the presence of a sacred witness, depending on the couples faith. ROOSE: And you prepared for the consequences. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? - Bustle. She, with help from the Knights of the Vale, wins back control of the North in the Battle of the Bastards and gloriously feeds Ramsay to his own, very hungry, dogs. Sansa, finally able to reclaim power over the husband who tortured and assaulted her, uncaged his vicious dogs to eat him alive. That's the point I'm making, Littlefinger doesn't care that she is already married in either medium. This can only happen if a septon agrees to dissolve the marriage. But, luckily, that also means she's free. While w, Welcome to If You Know, You Know, the corner of the internet celebrating the most interesting people and dissecting phenomena within our rich diaspora. ROOSE: And you prepared for the consequences. Sansa ever marrying or even coming into contact with Ramsay Bolton seems so unlikely because, as of the end of the latest released book, Sansa is still in the Eyrie with Sweetrobin Arryn and Petyr Baelish. Where the Church was not powerful or present, marriage was controlled by private families, who made up their own rules more or less, Coontz said. Nancy F. Cott, Jonathan Trumbull They would probably have invented an occasion for another very public ceremony, with exchanges of gifts between the families, invitations of other nobles, feasting, etc, Coontz said. After Tyrion and Shae were married and Shae realized they were not intimate, she unsuccessfully tried to seduce Tyrion once more. Tyrion never consummated the marriage. However, he's a bit immature (to put it lightly) and would leave Sansa with a lot of down time while they are engaged. Do roots of these polynomials approach the negative of the Euler-Mascheroni constant? Sansa knows now that partnerships can be weapons if wielded correctly. Eddard didn't defy him then just as he didn't defy him about killing Sansa's wolf. A second ceremony could even be held to validate it. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Sansa says and she never does. After what she's been through, we doubt she'll be rushing to get married again any time soon. Keep in mind that if Sansa's surroundings say that the marriage was valid; then no one (without proof) can say otherwise. Those are the signals, right? Why are they asking Professors of history for this answer and calling them experts on the world GRRM has created? Karras believes that, according to this late 12th-century law, Sansa and Ramsays marriage was an adulterous one. How did Renly expect Robert to set aside Cersei and take Margaery as queen instead? The two of them could make a great team, however I don't think she'll be marrying him any time soon. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. He kept his house in power through sheer will. Furthermore, Sigurd's illegitimate son King Haakon II the Broad-shouldered (1147-1162) was born as early as 1147, just 2 years after 1145. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORWAY.htm#SigurdHaraldssonMunddied11554. What did you think about Sansa's treatment? He kept his house in power through sheer will. Sansa 2023 BuzzFeed, Inc. All rights reserved. In that world (and their laws) that means the marriage of Sansa and Tyrion is not legal. In season 3, episode 8, "The Second Sons," Sansa marries Tyrion before being unceremoniously taken to marry Ramsay Bolton instead. If adults could "marry" off girls too young to make informed consent to God they could marry off girls to mortal men without the informed consent of the girls. ", Sansa tries to prevent her father's execution in ", Promotional image of Sansa in the Great Hall of the Red Keep in ". I'm just hoping that Season 5 allows it. This is not historical drama, so they could take whatever liberties with medieval canon law that they like, Karras said.